Home > Roman Catholicism > Kickin’ It Old School Roman Style or What’s Old is New Again

Kickin’ It Old School Roman Style or What’s Old is New Again

June 19th, 2007
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180pxtridentine_massFor the sake of a blogging friend who hates it when "old guys" like me try to sound cool, I added the "kicking it" phrase just to make him grind his teeth.
The Vatican is about to release a statement indicating that the celebration of the 16th Century Tridentine Mass is kosher again throughout the Roman communion. Previously, it required special dispensation of the local bishop to celebrate it and many Roman Catholic bishops have not permitted it in their dioceses. The Vatican statement would be a Papal "indult" as it is called allowing priests everywhere to celebrate the Tridentine Mass without the permission of their bishop. The big question still remains: will the Pope put any conditions on his indult, or not? The "Motu proprio," as this kind of statement is called, has been written and is being translated. It apparently has already been leaked, in Spanish, in Central America. This is all the buzz on many Roman Catholic blogs, which I enjoy monitoring. The Old Order Mass is the Mass form that was used throughout Roman Catholicism up until Vatican II introduced the New Order mass. I have attended many New Order masses, while I was a student at a Roman Catholic High School, and at friends’ churches, and I have always been struck by how insipid and banal it is in many respects, to be fair, in terms of style, no different from how poorly the Lutheran Divine Service is conducted at far too many Lutheran congregations. The Old Order mass is the form of the Mass against which Luther speaks out so powerfully in the Smalcald Articles. This is a prime opportunity for Lutherans to assert the Evangelical treasures of the Scriptures. With a Vatican approval of the Old Order of the Mass Rome will  once again clearly demonstrate that in spite of all the romanticizing done by Lutheran ecumenists about how Rome has "changed" and how it has now again "embraced the Gospel," it is in fact just the same old, same old Romanism. Interestingly, this call for the old Latin Mass is coming from younger catholics.

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Categories: Roman Catholicism
  1. June 19th, 2007 at 19:36 | #1

    Pr. Paul.
    I was an RC kid during Vatican II and I do remember the Latin Mass, I did not have a clue what the heck was happening.
    It seemed like “voodoo” to me, as we say in the IT industry. ;-)
    Lito

  2. June 20th, 2007 at 09:15 | #2

    Whatever happened to Dr. Luther’s proposal to teach all the kids Latin, Hebrew and Greek in addition to their own German and to have services in an assortment of languages? (The German Mass and Order of Divine Service)

  3. June 20th, 2007 at 20:23 | #3

    Tim,
    The RCC is like Microsoft, they could care less what the user needs.
    Lito

  4. Tom H
    July 6th, 2007 at 10:21 | #4

    Lito,
    “…they could care less what user needs”
    Irenicism be darned I suppose. Watch the broadness of the brush with which you paint. I’m an early 30s RC and many of my age have been clamoring for the Tradition Rite of the Mass. This will be an option, not a mandate, to use the Old Rite. It is a final realization that both (Novus Ordo and Tridentine) have a place in ordinary use in the RC Church.
    What memory of the Old Rite you have (as a child if I recall your statement…not much I understood as a child) is generally immaterial. The Church is certainly not interested in what Luterans will think about the Motu.
    …yes, yes. Please begin the “Apostate church et. al” insipid comments to follow.

  5. Julia
    July 6th, 2007 at 15:18 | #5

    Lito:
    I was a Catholic university student during Vatican II. I remember the old Latin Mass much better than you do. If you couldn’t figure out what was going on then 1) you were still illiterate and could not read your missal and/or 2) you never paid attention in class. It’s not like it was a different Mass every day – sooner or later you should have caught on even if you couldn’t read your missal and were deaf to instructions in class.
    Cyberbrethren:
    The New Mass was written with the help of Benelux Lutheran professors. No wonder it seems familiar to you.

  6. Julia
    July 6th, 2007 at 15:29 | #6

    I just read the link to what Luther had to say about the Mass.
    If you believe what Luther said, why the scorn that the old Masss may be back? The new Mass is still the kind of thing that Luther described and detested.

  7. July 7th, 2007 at 06:32 | #7

    Julia,
    I really have no qualms if the RCC bring back the Latin Mass, besides, it is for those who want it.
    You seem to know a lot about me, I was wondering if you were one of my RC teachers. I was catechized at St Mary’s College. Like I said before, may be I slipped through quality control, because I do not recall them teaching us the meaning of the Latin words in the mass. I doubt if I was absent when they taught it.
    But what you say is often what my RC friends say about me, that I am ignorant even though my parents are devout RC members and my ancestors have not know anything but to be loyal to the RCC. I practiced my Novenas to St. Jude, was involved in Opus Dei, was in Cursillo, did my rosaries and stations of the Cross and even after that, they still think I misrepresent the RCC teachings in my mind, so they say.
    Lito

  8. Steve
    July 10th, 2007 at 08:51 | #8

    Just a small point of clarification. (Roman legalism?) The decree (a Motu Proprio – Latin for “by his own accord”) does not introduce an Indult.
    An Indult is an exception to the law. It can properly be said that prior to the Motu Proprio, the Traditional Mass was offered by an excepton to the universal liturgical law. (Erroneous though, because Pope Benedict stated that the prior form had never been abrogated)
    By decreeing that the Traditional Mass had never been abrogated and by recognizing its legitimate usage in the one Roman Rite, no Indult is offered nor , indeed, is one necessary.

  9. Steve
    July 10th, 2007 at 08:56 | #9

    A small point of correction. (Roman Legalism?)
    Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio (Latin for “by his own accord”) does not offer an Indult.
    An Indult is an exception to the law and by decreeing that the Traditional Mass is a legitimate expression of the one Roman Rite no Indult is offered nor, indeed, is one necessary.
    The Pope recognized the “right” so no particular “exception” is required.

  10. Scott B
    July 10th, 2007 at 13:27 | #10

    It gets so tiring hearing others tell Catholics what they should and should not do and how the Church should change this or that rule or teaching. The Catholic Church alone possesses the fullness of truth regarding Jesus Christ and His message. We don’t tell you what to do. Don’t tell us what to do. All other Christians have denied one or the other of Christ’s teachings, some greater, some lesser. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer, Melanchton, etc… all denied the truth of the Gospel because it wasn’t comfortable to them or to suit their needs or, more usually, their ambition. If the Holy Father’s Motu Proprio has done anything, it has laid bare the rampant anti-Catholicism that is present in so-called Christians and Jews. If you don’t like what we believe or do, you don’t like it. Not our problem, but it will be your’s. Deal with it.

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