And it continues in the ELCA.
I think its ironic that both the current and former bishops of this congregation are declining to ordain her, even though it is obvious they both support the decision to ordain her. If they believe in this sort of thing, where’s the guts to stand on their convictions.
Obviously this whole thing goes against the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions. But if they truly believe this is a “God ordained” event then where’s the hutzpah? It is laughable that they are even lukewarm in their liberalism. Wickness and hypocrisy.
I would also be interested to know what the content of the “letters of censure” were from the dissenting bishops. On what grounds were they objecting to the “ordination”? I wonder if their are any confessional Lutheran voices left in the ELCA–I have no idea.
This is an important quote from that article:
“After earning a master of divinity degree, Rude interned at the Lake View church, 3309 N. Seminary, in 2005 and 2006 and then was hired as part-time lay professional minister.”
Watch the use of so-called “lay ministry” tracks as a back door for things one can’t push through the front door. I believe that this will be, if it is not already, the inroad to female ministers in the LCMS.
Can we apply the “lesser of two evils” law here? Or does that only work when it’s something really important like Republican Vs Democrat. Remember the often quoted, seldom enacted rule of great republican minds such as Sean Vannity and Bull O’Really:
“Judge not lest ye be judged”
“God helps those who helps themselves” – Reagan 12: 6
“Stupid is as stupid does” – Gump 32: 5
Life is like a, oh nevermind…
What does the church expect!?!?!? Right now we have christians telling Christians that unless we support the lesser republican evil with our vote we are “basically” voting for the hideous monstrosity beast from the democratic nether-world Hillasaurus. I’m sorry but when the church is weak and willing to compromise this is what happens and we have no one to blame (pardon me while I quote Michael Jackson) but the man in the mirror. This is like setting a mirror on your desk, looking into it eyeball to eyeball and carrying on a debate about who is to blame as if there are 2 different people debating the issue. Think about just how ludicrous this is, we are being told to VOTE for someone who supports gay marriage and abortion but we’re wondering why the church has to deal with ordaining homosexuals. Imagine if Luther went with the lesser of two evils, “hmmm I can be burned alive or I can say Oops, my bad”… The church has absolutely NO backbone or convictions anymore. Everything has become a “political move”. It’s horribly depressing to see the state Christianity is in within the USA. Shameful really.
“hmmm I can be burned alive or I can say Oops, my bad”…”
I respectfully ask for a moratorium on the phrase “my bad”. I hate it, its sounds stupid, and is horrible grammar. That and it really does seem to be used to sound cool or young. Should we add the word like in there too? “like, its like, my bad” AHHHHHHH!!!
“lesser evil” falls into the same bad grammar and is equally annoying. evil is evil, is there an Italian blend evil? Sumatra Evil? Mocha double latte evil? “lesser evil” is still evil. My bad lesser evil?
I think that would be “like totally my bad lesser evil”
Another one is “unthaw” oh you mean freeze then.
I think you guys belong on the Pet Peeves thread.
Lesser evil is actually an understood abbreviation of the full term: “The lesser of two evils”. There are greater and lesser degrees of evil. If there was no civil difference between evils, jay walkers and mass murderers would be on the same level and receive equal punishment under the law. Both are evil. As far as the state is concerned, one is clearly worse than the other.
As to the condition of the church; our current predicament is what happens when the church tries to highjack the duties of the state. It is the state’s duty to impose the rule of civil law. The duty of the church is to proclaim God’s Word. This separation exists only to protect the church from the state. When the church tries to use the power of the state to impose moral law, the distinction between the church and the state becomes blurred. Historically this has always resulted in a weakening of the church and an obfuscation of the gospel. The day that the church decided to be a political and cultural animal, it opened itself up to the rules that the secular world plays by: public image, personal narcissism, and moral compromise.
Had the churches stayed out of government and focused on their divinely appointed duties, perhaps more of the populace would agree with the church’s position today. Had they focused on the gospel and left the task of political reform to the vocations of individual Christians, the church would not have become mired in its current situation. The image of the church is not preserved by throwing it into the political forum. Had the church kept itself above the fray, it might have been able to lead a populist reform of the government by the encouragement of ethics in the culture as a whole.
This traditional approach was bypassed for the quick fix of direct political action by the church as a corporate, political entity. To the well-intentioned supporters of this plan, the ends justified the means. The people were bypassed yet again and the principle of individual liberty was trampled on. The democractic process became an arena for various collectives and organizations at the expense of the individual citizens. The church and the state became elite and began to work together to determine what was best for the people without due process. As a result, the people turned on both the church and the state. Neither is held in high regard by the public.
What is the end result?
1. The initial goal of the church is still not realized.
2. Parts of the church are now in the pocket of the political machine of the state.
3. The culture now views the church as a political entity that can be changed through political processes.
4. Civil hostility toward the church and individual Christians has increased.
5. The church has now adopted the political lessons that it has learned while acting as the state and become more like the state and less like the church.
6. The church as an organization has become selfish. The church now views their flocks statistically and sells itself to unbelievers by marketing strategies and demographic data. The importance of individual Christians within the church has been lost in favor of the greater good of the collective entity.
7. The church has become purpose driven instead of Gospel driven.
8. The attempt by the church to bypass public opinion in favor of direct political action allowed her political opponents to claim the populist stance. As a result, the opponents of the church were able to claim that they were protecting the common man from a tyrannical church who was attempting to usurp governmental control from the people to impose its own “Christian” agenda.
9. The church foolishly defends itself by saying that the state has always been Christian and that the people have always been a Christian nation. The people (particularly nonChristians) can look around and see how secular the world is. They know that the church is boasting claims that are discounted by the hard evidence of the sinful condition of man. The very existance of legal abortion in the United States proves that it is not a Christian nation. A Christian nation would never legalize such a thing. The claims of cultural supremecy in the post-christian world make the church look irrationally dogmatic, intolerant, and blind. This made extreme political stances like infanticide more acceptable to the people.
10. The church now views civil ethics and political activism as its most important function.
11. The gospel of Christ has been neglected.
12. The number of people who are politically involved and the total number of practicing Christians has decreased.
13. The culture continues to slide into immorality as the canyon between the people and the church widens.
14. The public ridicule of Christ has become socially acceptable.
15. The political agenda that has been pushed by the church has blinded Christians to the possibility that there are several political decisions that can result in the allowence of mass genocide. Best estimates list US abortion rates at 53,625 babies per month between 2004-2006. The current death toll in Darfur is 10,000 people per month by famine and disease alone. Many of these are children under the age of two. If preserving human life is a principle that is important to Christians, then it is not reserved to a single political issue or confined to a single country.
I like the first comment (Dave’s). I would be in favor of gay ordination. I am a former ELCA pastor who converted to Reform Judaism. So, yes. We Reform Jews have the hutzpah. But, I agree with Dave that the traditional duplicity within the ELCA is a huge issue. When I was in seminary we had the exterior prosecutions of gay students along with under the table support. There were students who did very little to hide they were gay who were lured into seminary thinking it was a safe environment, only to be backstabbed later when their identity became a little too high profile. It should be one or the other. No one can live in a constant state of deceit, doublespeak, and game playing without it all just being a huge waste of time. In my Jewish congregation, we have ZERO drama on any of this. And I much prefer the shalom.
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