Comments on: Church, Inc. and Why Imitation is No Strategy for Lutheranism

By: ptmccain

ptmccain — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:31:10 +0000

Lindsey, thanks for your response and helping this conversation along with this counter-point.

By: Lindsey

Lindsey — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:10:33 +0000

Allow me to play Devil’s Advocate.
As an LCMS Lutheran who has received much spiritual growth and maturity from Evangelicalism, I think I need to put in my two cents.
Evangelicals as a whole are FAR better at ministering to people of all age groups than are Lutherans. Tailoring specific ministries to different demographics and age groups is not “compromising” the Gospel, it is expressing it in ways that I believe Paul is talking about when he says “To the Jews I became as a Jew, to the Greeks, I became as a Greek, I have become all things to all men that I might save some.”
Now, it is true that there ARE problems with some of the techniques that many Evangelicals have adopted. Shallowness in worship is one that immediately comes to mind.
I’ve been to several different Lutheran churches that at first glance, appear to be Evangelical churches in terms of their music, sanctuary layouts, church ministries, etc. However, trust me from experience, these churches are distinctly Lutheran. They do not compromise their core beliefs and identity, they simply present them in more “Evangelical” forms.
Never have I been to a “contemporary” Lutheran church that denied infant Baptism, the real presence in Holy Communion, the Trinity, justfication by grace through faith, etc. and all those other tenets that make a Christian Church “Lutheran.”

By: Susan R

Susan R — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:07:20 +0000

Pastor Wilken writes:
‘…to look, sound and act like anything but Lutherans.’
Or, to continue his train of thought: ‘to look, sound and act anything like grownups.’
Or: ‘their elders’.
Or: ‘their grandfathers.’
The problem with adolescence that lingers beyond the years of physical adolescence is the likelihood that this warped and unnatural state is not likely to change. Maturity is unlikely; it’s less likely with every gain that adolescence (immaturity) affords.
Spoiled brats don’t give up goals and gains without tantrums, defiance, and utter rebellion.
Trouble is, they never seem to understand that their rebellion is against more than just their elder/adults/grandparents/Lutherans. Their rebellion is against He Who made grandparents, the church, and even themselves.
Failure to get over onself is the mark of immaturity, whether in how one handles Dad’s car or how one shepherds Grandad’s church.

By: Todd Wilken

Todd Wilken — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:50:02 +0000

Paul,
The answer to your question, “Why would The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod want to imitate these trends, techniques and gimmicks? ” is simple: Theological adolescence.
Those in the LCMS urging us to ape empty evangelicalism are theological adolescents. And, like most adolescents they are bored and embarrassed.
They are bored with faithful preaching and administration of the sacraments, and embarrassed to be seen with their theological parents.
And, like adolescents, they slavishly imitate other theological adolescents, convinced that they are being unique, marching to the beat of their own drum, setting-trends –all in a desperate attempt to look, sound and act like anything but Lutherans.
TW

By: Aaron

Aaron — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:04:01 +0000

My questions regarding the blog:
1) So … are we in “competition” with the “big-box” churches?
[[McCain: One could come away with that impression when we see LCMS congregations imitating the big-boxes]].
I understand that we tend to have a more grace-oriented message to share.
[[McCain: We have a Christ-centered message that is painfully lacking in much of modern American Evangelicalism, as the article points out, and as hundreds more like it are bemoaning]].
But come on! Quit focusing on competing by being better or by tearing down the big churches. Granted, there are some that have lousy preaching – a lot of fluff and no true call to repentance or healing with the gospel. But many of them, if you pay attention, do a very good job of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen and sins forgiven.
[[McCain: We would hope they do, but, again, pay attention to what many Evangelicals are decrying and you'll see that the message of Christ and His cross is not central to much modern "ministry" out there.]]
Besides, Jesus told his disciples: “Whoever is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40).
2) Why are we trying to “sell” LUTHERANISM anyway?! Just share CHRIST! Preach Christ and BE the body of Christ for people. We believe that the Holy Spirit will turn hearts. Trust that He will. We’re called to preach the Kingdom, not divide the Body.
[[McCain: What is the difference between Lutheranism and proclaiming Christ? If there is no point in being Lutheran, why bother? And if we make no compelling case for being and remaining Lutheran, who will? It is naieve simply to assume that differences do not matter, and ironically, when we take that attitude we end up simply looking a lot like the big-box non-denoms.]]

By: Luther Gulseth

Luther Gulseth — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:40:51 +0000

I have long believed that Hollywood gives church an identity. Many movies and TV shows portray church in a confessional manner using Catholic or Orthodox type buildings and a liturgically based worship environment. How often do you see a praise band there? (Friday Night Lights and Sister Act 1/2 excluded.) Many southern based movies do have praise chorus type worship, but nearly all of them are in a small country church that is predominantly black.
Hollywood is brilliant at stereotyping, why can’t Lutherans embrace this stereotype and enjoy the 500-year heritage of worship and hymns? Why don’t we proclaim Christ Crucified in the same manner as Paul and the Apostles? Proclaim our worship as a place to receive 100% pure Gifts from God with no strings attached. Worship is receiving God’s Gifts in His Word and Sacrament and our return thanks and praise. It may be “old-fashioned,” but I’m certain that God will not allow his pure Word and Sacraments to come back to him unused.
In Christ crucified,
Luther Gulseth

By: Christine

Christine — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:14:13 +0000

Thanks be to God that “old, fuddy-duddy, stick-in-the-mud, dogmatic, confessional Lutheranism” was there for me to come back to.
Word and Sacrament are the lifeblood of the Church and we dare not discard these treasures.
I agree very much that our schools are an added treasure and that we also very much need to educate our people and inquirers as to the history of the church. The last couple of generations have been very disconnected from that and need to relearn that as evangelical catholics confessional Lutherans are firmly rooted in the history of the church all the way back to Pentecost.
It is modern evangelicalism that is actually the newcomer on the block.

By: Ryan R. Mueller

Ryan R. Mueller — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:57:54 +0000

Marketing 101 for the the LCMS (no answers, just questions):
Product: What is the church selling? Doctrine according to the BOC? Eternal Life? Hope of a better present? A way out of the despair of this world via an understanding of God’s plan? An understanding of one’s place in the universe? Personal relationship with Christ? A chance to worship with other believers?
Price: What demands does/should the LCMS place on people? Weekly attendance at church? Daily bible study and daily prayer? A signature on a statement of confessions? 10% of household earnings? 75% of household earnings (pre-tax)?
Place: Where does the product get consumed &/or ‘purchased’? At church (bricks and mortar)? On the internet? In the heart? In the home? In an email? At the coffee shop in small groups? At work places in the form of the a quiet witness?
Promotion: How should the LCMS let people know about the prior 3 items? Post cards? News paper ads? Newspaper editorials? How does one go about letting the unchurched know that their Savior Jesus Christ is eager to have a relationship with them? Non-church-site non-Sunday ‘Sunday School’?
I don’t ask these questions because I have the answers figured out, and I may have left some of the most important questions out…but maybe these questions (using the 4 P’s of marketing) will help guide some of the thinking on these issues.

By: Jeff Samelson

Jeff Samelson — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:51:09 +0000

How about a blog contest to update that old saying to apply it to this kind of imitation:
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but it’s the ____________ form of strategy.”
I’ll start off filling the blank in with “lamest”.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:34:08 +0000

I want to agree with the blog post. We should have a passion for unreached people. Confessional Lutheran evangelism is rooted in Word and Sacrament. We invite folks to come hear the Law that puts us to death and the Gsopel which raises us. All along the Holy Spirit is at work creating and sustaining faith. “Come and see..” This is our evangelisation strategy. Jeff…a confessional Lutheran who happens to be ELCA.