Comments on: The Key to the Future of the Lutheran Church http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/ Devoted to authentic Lutheranism Wed, 23 May 2012 21:13:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: RozD http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4700 RozD Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:21:42 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=1420#comment-4700 I am not Lutheran, but I greatly respect the conversation and reflection going on here. In a purely abstract sense, there are three traps that one might fall into on this journey. One might be to define oneself by what you are not -- not-Catholic, not-Presbyterian, not-Baptist, etc. Important distinctions to be sure, but not very reliable guideposts. A second could be to explore with one's focus distracted by what's over your shoulder -- which branch, group, constituency will be affect, delighted, offended by this? If this or that Synod likes this direction, it must be okay (or vice versa). And the third and most risky is -- am I so focused on nailing this down that I stop asking the question, "What does God want? What is most faithful to what Jesus founded during his earthly ministry? Where is the heart of the Holy Spirit actively leading?" This is not meant to be patronizing. I see all of these in myself. I honor all Christians of good will as brothers and wish you very well on your pilgrimage. I am not Lutheran, but I greatly respect the conversation and reflection going on here. In a purely abstract sense, there are three traps that one might fall into on this journey. One might be to define oneself by what you are not — not-Catholic, not-Presbyterian, not-Baptist, etc. Important distinctions to be sure, but not very reliable guideposts. A second could be to explore with one's focus distracted by what's over your shoulder — which branch, group, constituency will be affect, delighted, offended by this? If this or that Synod likes this direction, it must be okay (or vice versa).

And the third and most risky is — am I so focused on nailing this down that I stop asking the question, "What does God want? What is most faithful to what Jesus founded during his earthly ministry? Where is the heart of the Holy Spirit actively leading?"

This is not meant to be patronizing. I see all of these in myself. I honor all Christians of good will as brothers and wish you very well on your pilgrimage.

]]> By: Ryan R. Mueller http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4655 Ryan R. Mueller Fri, 03 Apr 2009 03:18:06 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=1420#comment-4655 To be Jesus's disciple is to have a hope that transcends any challenge that this life may hold, but it is not to have material riches, perfect health, or eternal life on this plane of existence. Until people give up on perfection here, until they reach a point of hopelessness and futility in this existence, maybe a promise of a better life in heaven holds little appeal. In some sense our salvation is absolutely complete: when Jesus said it is finished he meant it. In some other sense, our salvation is not brought into fruition until we are perfected and in God's presence. The promise that we can be children of God, that we can be his friends and claim an inheritance that is reserved for us in heaven is only perceived to have value after a person realizes that perfect peace is not going to be found in this world. The challenge that the Lutheran Church faces is to find those who are ready to quit searching here and find peace and the promise of happiness that only Jesus can provide. Once done, Jesus, the Scriptures, and the Lutheran Confessions will have immediate relevance to those people. To be Jesus's disciple is to have a hope that transcends any challenge that this life may hold, but it is not to have material riches, perfect health, or eternal life on this plane of existence. Until people give up on perfection here, until they reach a point of hopelessness and futility in this existence, maybe a promise of a better life in heaven holds little appeal. In some sense our salvation is absolutely complete: when Jesus said it is finished he meant it. In some other sense, our salvation is not brought into fruition until we are perfected and in God's presence. The promise that we can be children of God, that we can be his friends and claim an inheritance that is reserved for us in heaven is only perceived to have value after a person realizes that perfect peace is not going to be found in this world. The challenge that the Lutheran Church faces is to find those who are ready to quit searching here and find peace and the promise of happiness that only Jesus can provide. Once done, Jesus, the Scriptures, and the Lutheran Confessions will have immediate relevance to those people.

]]> By: Jon M. Ellingworth http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4654 Jon M. Ellingworth Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:49:01 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=1420#comment-4654 Sometimes we treat them like quaint remnants of a by-gone age to be held onto for merely nostalgic remembrance. Sometimes we wield them like powerful weapons and crush those who oppose us. What if we submit to them and live them as a way of "being" -- not insisting upon what they don't say nor denying what they do; not making them more than norma normata nor treating them as mere guides. Can these bones live? I believe they can. Sometimes we treat them like quaint remnants of a by-gone age to be held onto for merely nostalgic remembrance. Sometimes we wield them like powerful weapons and crush those who oppose us. What if we submit to them and live them as a way of "being" — not insisting upon what they don't say nor denying what they do; not making them more than norma normata nor treating them as mere guides. Can these bones live? I believe they can.

]]> By: Jon M. Ellingworth http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4653 Jon M. Ellingworth Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:48:16 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=1420#comment-4653 To do what Neuhaus proposes (Piepkorn, Von Schenk, others as well) is to walk a fine line, a narrow path. It is to live the theology of the cross, following the path that Christ Himself has ablazed, in the world, but not of the world. The key here is submission, humilty, charity, patience, forgivness, long-suffering, peace, mercy, love, and a long, biblical, Christological list of selfless thoughts, words, and deeds. The key word here, however, is submission -- to the Word of God, to the Lutheran Confessions, to each other, etc. I do not believe that the Lutheran confession of Christ has reached its fullest expression yet -- this is the primary reason I stay. We have all the right doctrines, confessions, truths, etc -- but what do we do with them? To do what Neuhaus proposes (Piepkorn, Von Schenk, others as well) is to walk a fine line, a narrow path. It is to live the theology of the cross, following the path that Christ Himself has ablazed, in the world, but not of the world. The key here is submission, humilty, charity, patience, forgivness, long-suffering, peace, mercy, love, and a long, biblical, Christological list of selfless thoughts, words, and deeds. The key word here, however, is submission — to the Word of God, to the Lutheran Confessions, to each other, etc. I do not believe that the Lutheran confession of Christ has reached its fullest expression yet — this is the primary reason I stay. We have all the right doctrines, confessions, truths, etc — but what do we do with them?

]]> By: Jon M. Ellingworth http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/04/02/the-key-to-the-future-of-the-lutheran-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4652 Jon M. Ellingworth Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:47:01 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=1420#comment-4652 Do I agree? Absolutely! Notice that Neuhaus is speaking of a way of "being" Lutheran, "being" evangelical catholic, "being" in unity with the entire Church of Christ, etc. He's speaking of a distinictively Lutheran habitus and ethos -- a "way of being". Concerning the current state of Lutheranism I am reminded of "The Second Coming" by Yeats: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity". With our laudable and true confessions, doctrines, and dogmatic formulations we risk losing mystery and spirituality, but not for lack of passionate intensity. The other risk is pursuit of mystery and spirituality with little or no conviction for what is true and non-negotiable. Such an approach substitutes emotion and enthusiasm for authentic spirituality and mystery. Do I agree? Absolutely! Notice that Neuhaus is speaking of a way of "being" Lutheran, "being" evangelical catholic, "being" in unity with the entire Church of Christ, etc. He's speaking of a distinictively Lutheran habitus and ethos — a "way of being". Concerning the current state of Lutheranism I am reminded of "The Second Coming" by Yeats: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity". With our laudable and true confessions, doctrines, and dogmatic formulations we risk losing mystery and spirituality, but not for lack of passionate intensity. The other risk is pursuit of mystery and spirituality with little or no conviction for what is true and non-negotiable. Such an approach substitutes emotion and enthusiasm for authentic spirituality and mystery.

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