I left the Roman Catholic church just about the time that work on the new translation of the Roman missal was being completed. It’s almost tragic to see Rome “restore” the Gloria, the Nicene Creed, etc. etc. to the historic forms that Confessional Lutherans have been using all along.

So now the Catholic in the pew can pray with a bit more reverence while waiting for the cantor to strike up the Marty Haugen and St. Louis Jesuit ditties.

Ho hum.

Is there something wrong with Marty Haugen? I’ve been reviewing the Creation Mass and Now is the Feast of Celebration, and I thought they were quite nice liturgical settings.

Is there something wrong with Marty Haugen? I’ve been reviewing the Creation Mass and Now is the Feast of Celebration, and I thought they were quite nice liturgical setting

Haugen’s work seems to have a particular “spin” depending on who he’s writing for. I believe at the moment he is a composer in residence with the United Church of Christ which has ecumenical relations with the ELCA but not the LCMS.

When I was Catholic and first exposed to Haugen’s “Gather Us In” I became very uncomfortable with the message it was sending.

Christine

Good for the RC. The betrayal of the historic Liturgy which occurred at Vatican II has been rectified since the ascension of Pope Benedict XVI and I hope it continues.

I actually own a book by Marty Haugen, “To Serve As Jesus Did.” It’s a wonderful book on how to be an effective music minister except in the last few chapters where he delves into politics and why his own personal liberal political views are the “Christian” way. It was a shame that that had to be included in an otherwise very good book.

The betrayal of the historic Liturgy which occurred at Vatican II has been rectified since the ascension of Pope Benedict XVI and I hope it continues.

Unfortunately it hasn’t. The very fact that there are now two Rites in the Catholic Church is a total betrayal of what went on before as is the self-understanding of the Catholic Church since Vatican II. The preconciliar church knew nothing of “Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist” or “lay pastoral asssociates” and a host of other anomilies.

That’s why the Society of Saint Pius X continues as a separate entity in upholding preconciliar Catholicism.

But then, I don’t accept either form anymore.

Christine

Interesting that about the first sentence condemns “creativity and abuse” in the liturgy.

One of the chief complaints that contemporary worship advocates have against the liturgy is that it is not creative, and creativity as seen as a very positive value in contemporary society.

I think we can learn a lot about someone’s attitude toward liturgy by asking if they think creativity is a good thing or a bad thing.

Creativity indeed — on whose part? On God’s — what he creates in us through Word and Sacrament?

Creativity in worship is strongly needed. Otherwise if it’s the exact same every Sunday, it becomes rote, mindless repetition. I can hardly think God would be pleased with that. Worship should be heartfelt, not simply “going through the motions.” If it is, it is false worship.

“These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me only consists of traditions taught by men.” Have fun with that.

I have yet to attend a service anywhere that has the exact same every Sunday.

Also, “going through the motions” in worship has everything to do with the sin that exists in the individual and very little to do with what is actually going on. Rote, mindless repetition only occurs when a person allows it to occur and it manifests in all forms of worship no matter how diverse or “interesting” it might be by design. In fact, examples of “going through the motions” can be found in every aspect of life (to include something as exhilerating as driving 70 miles an hour on a freeway.)

Creativity in worship is strongly needed. Otherwise if it’s the exact same every Sunday, it becomes rote, mindless repetition. I can hardly think God would be pleased with that. Worship should be heartfelt, not simply “going through the motions.” If it is, it is false worship.

Lindsey, may I gently suggest that you do some research on the meaning of sacramental, liturgical worship — far from being “rote” and “mindless” it is the vehicle by which we can enter into the worship that goes on endlessly in heaven.

You might also be interested in Dr. Arthur Just’s wonderful book “Heaven on Earth” to learn further just how Divine Service accomplishes true worship.

Christine

I’m deeply sorry if my last comment came across as judgemental. I was in a hurry when I wrote it and I didn’t word it as I should’ve.

I didn’t mean to imply that “different every Sunday” always means heartfelt and that “sameness” always means non-heartfelt. I guess I’ve just talked with many people (many of which are in my own family) who have expressed a new dimension in their worship life when some “different” elements were introduced in worship instead of the “same thing every Sunday.” They said things along the lines of, “in the past I realized I was just saying the words and I didn’t really mean it. Now that there’s some variety and creativity it allows me to think about what’s being said/sung and it’s really improved my worship life.” I’m not saying that a person can’t engage in a liturgical worship that’s pretty much the same every Sunday and have it be heartfelt, or that variety is the antidote for “going through the motions.” I’ve just encountered many people who like variety because it “keeps their mind from going to sleep.” But once again, I’m sorry I came across as judgemental. May God forgive me.

I guess I’ve just talked with many people (many of which are in my own family) who have expressed a new dimension in their worship life when some “different” elements were introduced in worship instead of the “same thing every Sunday.”

Ah, but that’s the beauty of liturgical worship! Some “evangelical” services are, for all practical purposes, an hour and and a half sermon. The great thing about liturgical worship is that Scripture comes alive as we move through the historical church year — from Advent to Christmas, Epiphany, etc. on to Lent, Easter, Pentecost, we remember the great events in the Lord’s life and how they shape our own lives. We also remember those brothers and sisters in Christ who have gone before us and await our arrival!

Liturgical worship is anything but boring. Jesus Himself attended the Synagogue every week, from which we get our Liturgy of the Word and then crowns it with the foretaste of the Feast to Come at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

I suspect that it’s when people don’t understand the background of our worship that they become bored.

Christine