Comments on: What Happens to Us When We Die?

By: Soul Sleep – wake up! | Life Beyond Now

Soul Sleep – wake up! | Life Beyond Now — Sat, 12 May 2012 03:51:41 +0000

[...] http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/11/17/what-happens-to-us-when-we-die/ [...]

By: ptmccain

ptmccain — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:44:45 +0000

I’m happy to tell you that this is NOT a common view among orthodox Lutherans, at all, in fact, we regard it as a false teaching, and reject it. Luther did not believe in “soul sleep” … you are saying a Lutheran pastor claims never to have heard 2 Cor. 5:8? Yowzers. Are you sure he was actually a pastor?

By: Jay Beuoy

Jay Beuoy — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:18:54 +0000

I found your site, because of a conversation yesterday with a Lutheran minister. He surprised me by espousing “soul sleep” although he had never heard the term. He quoted Luther in such a way as to defend it. When I mentioned that Paul’s words “absent from the body is present with the Lord” (2Cor 5:8) suggest something more than soul sleep would demand, he said he had never heard the quote. This made me want to check on my Lutheran friends and see if such was the case. Apparently, this is is a commonly held view among some Lutherans? Your defense of the intermediate state seems sound. Thanks

By: Randy Keyes

Randy Keyes — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:29:22 +0000

Off topic: I didn’t realize Christian Dogmatics was available digitally! Thank you for posting that link!!!! I appreciate that we can buy the digital library in “stages” as that is a bit easier(at least for me).
OK, I’m rewriting my Christmas list for the year!

Grace and Peace,
Randy Keyes

By: ptmccain

ptmccain — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:35:38 +0000

@Rev. Ray Salemink The man who taught this should be led to recognize and repent of his error, or removed from the clergy roster of our Synod.

By: Matthew Carver

Matthew Carver — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:39:21 +0000

Thanks very much for this post, Rev. McCain. I did not know it until examining our synod’s hymnals more closely, but this is all corroborated by traditional Lutheran funeral hymns which are often stunningly detailed on the division and reuniting of “Leib” and “Geist” or “Seele.” Perhaps they are not well known (at least to me) because hymns at committals and funerals are often chosen based on what was the deceased’s favorite during his lifetime, or perhaps the words are not closely attended in the midst of the great sorrow of bereavement. Either way, it behooves us constantly to ponder our mortality “in media vita” (even when we are not at funerals), to study what our Lord says about death and life, and such writings as this of Pieper, and to study and sing the hymns which echo the orthodox teaching on this subject in the “death and burial” sections of our hymnals. I do not think this a morose activity, but an important aspect of the Christian life, and

By: Rev. Ray Salemink

Rev. Ray Salemink — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:13:57 +0000

There was a pastor that substituted for a day in one of my sem classes and taught this, quoting a verse in Revelation that mentions the martyrs sleeping under the altar until the Lord comes again. He said that since time was no more for those in heaven, they were unaware of sleeping, because for them, right after they arrived in heaven, Jesus came to earth again. Several of us questioned that and I never did get a plain answer from the person. I’m not a believer in it myself.

By: Eric Garvue

Eric Garvue — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:59:18 +0000

Thanks for this; although I have a follow up question: how do we explain Saul and the witch of Endor? How is she able to “call up” the spirit of Samuel if departed souls do not return to earth? What does Samuel mean in v. 19 when he says “tomorrow you and your sons will be with me” if we assume Samuel is in paradise with God and Saul because of his unfaithfulness is bound for hell? Was this just an evil spirit God allowed to speak to Saul, or something else? These passages have always confused me, and have seemed contrary to what true doctrine teaches (enumerated in your post). Thanks in advance for help understanding this.

Most assuredly a Demonic presence, an evil angel.

By: Dave Lambert

Dave Lambert — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:56:53 +0000

Thank you for posting this information. My 12 year old son has asked me a lot of questions about this and now I can offer an answer.

By: jack Kilcrease

jack Kilcrease — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:57:32 +0000

Of Luther thought that there was a possibility of “soul sleep.” I wouldn’t really view that as heretical per se, nevertheless, I find the more mainstream and tradition answer more satisfying in light of the biblical passages that Pieper mentions. I enjoyed the post.

McCain response: Luther has been accused by those who advocate “soul sleep” of supporting their point of view, when, in fact, Luther absolutely did not advocate “soul sleep.” His understanding of the soul’s status between physical death and the Resurrection of all flesh was that of a very alert, active, aware state of, to use today’s lingo, “higher consciousness.” In his Genesis lectures he dealt quite a lot with this subject and described the heightened state of the soul’s awareness as something we experience as we dream, where we are fully aware, alert and experiencing something, though he said that the soul’s awareness would be much more vivid, intense and real than even that we experience when we dream. Bottom line: Luther does not believe, or teach, “soul sleep” as some have in the past couple hundred of years. I had an article published in LOGIA: A Journal of Lutheran Theology quite a few years back on Luther’s view of the state of the soul, according to his Genesis lectures, but I don’t remember in which issue, etc.