Comments on: Reason and Faith: Can Anything Be Believed That is Against Reason? http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/11/20/reason-and-faith-can-anything-be-believed-that-is-against-reason/ Devoted to authentic Lutheranism Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:42:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: aldenswan.com » Blog Archive » Martin Luther is still my hero http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/11/20/reason-and-faith-can-anything-be-believed-that-is-against-reason/comment-page-1/#comment-9487 aldenswan.com » Blog Archive » Martin Luther is still my hero Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:44:06 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4103#comment-9487 [...]    Posted by: me   in Church, Exploring the Twain, Theological Musings Add Comment Therefore a distinction must be made between reason left to itself without restriction, which runs about unbridled and is carried around by its reckonings, which judges and decides on the basis of its own principles, which are common notions, perceptions, experience, etc., and reason restrained by God’s Word and kept in obedience to Christ. This judges and decides on the basis of the proper principle of theology, that is, on the basis of God’s Word, which has been set forth in the Holy Scriptures. The mysteries of faith are not contrary to reason considered in the latter respect, but they are contrary to reason considered in the former respect. (from a yet-unpublished translation of Luther, as posted by Paul T. McCain) [...] [...]    Posted by: me   in Church, Exploring the Twain, Theological Musings Add Comment Therefore a distinction must be made between reason left to itself without restriction, which runs about unbridled and is carried around by its reckonings, which judges and decides on the basis of its own principles, which are common notions, perceptions, experience, etc., and reason restrained by God’s Word and kept in obedience to Christ. This judges and decides on the basis of the proper principle of theology, that is, on the basis of God’s Word, which has been set forth in the Holy Scriptures. The mysteries of faith are not contrary to reason considered in the latter respect, but they are contrary to reason considered in the former respect. (from a yet-unpublished translation of Luther, as posted by Paul T. McCain) [...]

]]> By: jmark http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/11/20/reason-and-faith-can-anything-be-believed-that-is-against-reason/comment-page-1/#comment-9486 jmark Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:43:05 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4103#comment-9486 As a convert to Lutheranism (from Catholicism), I was always put off by the Roman Church’s confidence that nothing in doctrine was contrary to reason. Such certainty kept a large number of Jesuit priest-scholars busy writing books, but it didn’t give me any comfort. Either because of temperament or personal history, I could easily entertain the idea of a godless, meaningless universe--and I found that perfectly reasonable--although despair inducing. As I studied science more (I have a Masters degree), I came to learn (thanks to the insights of Thomas Kuhn (The Structure of Scientific Revolutions)) of how scientific paradigms change (example: from an earth-centric to a sun-centered system, from Newtonian physics to those based on Einstein). Science presents its conclusions always based on the BAE - Best Available Evidence. As more evidence is discovered, old paradigms are revised, updated, sometimes completely junked. What appears contrary to reason one day (light travels in a curve in the universe, not a straight line; a man in a plane can go faster than the speed of sound without the plane and the man being destroyed, etc.) gets taken for granted later. Since reason bases its conclusions on the best available evidence (BAE), those conclusions are only valid to the degree that the available evidence is an accurate representation of the totality of evidence--available or unavailable. If our evidence is like a fragment of a hologram- each fragment of a holographic photograph will carry the entire image that it represents--then nothing can be contrary to our reasoning. But if our evidence is more like a few pieces of an uncompleted puzzle--the pieces we have do not tell us what the entire puzzle will eventually look like--then many things can be contrary to reason and be true. The history of science shows that our knowledge is more of the puzzle pieces type than the holographic fragment type: the paradigms, models, etc., keep changing (I can recall when dermatologists were warning us never to go out in the sun without strong sunblock. Now, we are warned to expose our skin to the sun regularly or we will suffer all types of terrible health consequences). I like a God who is counter-intuitive; I don’t have much faith in man’s reason or his goodness. I’m one of those sour pusses who think man is so bad that he needs a God to save him. For the life of me, I can’t relate to Christians who think that people are so wonderful. If they are so wonderful, why did God have to get slaughtered for them? I mean, if man is so great, God should have sent us a greeting card with the following written inside: “Keep up the good work!” That would have been all the scripture any of us needed. As a convert to Lutheranism (from Catholicism), I was always put off by the Roman Church’s confidence that nothing in doctrine was contrary to reason. Such certainty kept a large number of Jesuit priest-scholars busy writing books, but it didn’t give me any comfort. Either because of temperament or personal history, I could easily entertain the idea of a godless, meaningless universe–and I found that perfectly reasonable–although despair inducing. As I studied science more (I have a Masters degree), I came to learn (thanks to the insights of Thomas Kuhn (The Structure of Scientific Revolutions)) of how scientific paradigms change (example: from an earth-centric to a sun-centered system, from Newtonian physics to those based on Einstein). Science presents its conclusions always based on the BAE – Best Available Evidence. As more evidence is discovered, old paradigms are revised, updated, sometimes completely junked. What appears contrary to reason one day (light travels in a curve in the universe, not a straight line; a man in a plane can go faster than the speed of sound without the plane and the man being destroyed, etc.) gets taken for granted later. Since reason bases its conclusions on the best available evidence (BAE), those conclusions are only valid to the degree that the available evidence is an accurate representation of the totality of evidence–available or unavailable. If our evidence is like a fragment of a hologram- each fragment of a holographic photograph will carry the entire image that it represents–then nothing can be contrary to our reasoning. But if our evidence is more like a few pieces of an uncompleted puzzle–the pieces we have do not tell us what the entire puzzle will eventually look like–then many things can be contrary to reason and be true. The history of science shows that our knowledge is more of the puzzle pieces type than the holographic fragment type: the paradigms, models, etc., keep changing (I can recall when dermatologists were warning us never to go out in the sun without strong sunblock. Now, we are warned to expose our skin to the sun regularly or we will suffer all types of terrible health consequences). I like a God who is counter-intuitive; I don’t have much faith in man’s reason or his goodness. I’m one of those sour pusses who think man is so bad that he needs a God to save him. For the life of me, I can’t relate to Christians who think that people are so wonderful. If they are so wonderful, why did God have to get slaughtered for them? I mean, if man is so great, God should have sent us a greeting card with the following written inside: “Keep up the good work!” That would have been all the scripture any of us needed.

]]> By: Bethany Kilcrease http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/11/20/reason-and-faith-can-anything-be-believed-that-is-against-reason/comment-page-1/#comment-9485 Bethany Kilcrease Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:53:57 +0000 http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4103#comment-9485 Pastor McCain, When is the new Gerhard volume shipping? We've been eagerly awaiting our copy and thought it would come this week. Bethany Kilcrease <em>McCain response: Should be in by the end of the year, or early next.</em> Pastor McCain,

When is the new Gerhard volume shipping? We’ve been eagerly awaiting our copy and thought it would come this week.

Bethany Kilcrease

McCain response: Should be in by the end of the year, or early next.

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