Comments on: The Manhattan Declaration: We Must Obey God Rather Than Men

By: Bruce G

Bruce G — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:52:23 +0000

I signed last week when I first ran across it. I’ve already been called–somewhat tongue in cheek–an ecumenist by a former pastor. I stand by the signing, and am glad to have a little Lutheran company. I responded to my pastor friend by a tongue and cheek rebuttal. I wrote, “Here I stand! Now excuse me while I go pray with some Methodists!”

By: Keith Shedron

Keith Shedron — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 04:06:50 +0000

Pr. McCain: Above you wrote that Lutherans have never denied that the Catholic church is a Christian church. Isn’t that what Luther did when he denounced Rome as the “synagogue of Satan”? I was taught in catechism that the answer was death and hell. What do you say?
Keith Shedron

McCain: In so far as Rome teaches falsely, it is not Christian. In so far as it teaches rightly, it is Christian.

By: Ty

Ty — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:09:03 +0000

You’re doing it wrong. It’s about infinite love and compassion. Judge not lest ye be judged. Other people’s motes versus your own massive beams. You are NOT God. Show some humility. God didn’t put you on this earth so you could tell your fellow sinners what to do with their genitals.

By: Fred

Fred — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:20:06 +0000

I signed. Its time we stood up and were counted. Very interesting follow-up.

By: Daniel Gorman

Daniel Gorman — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:59:13 +0000

The Manhattan Declaration is loaded with Pelagianism (e.g., “In this declaration, we affirm: 1) the profound, inherent, and equal dignity of every human being as a creature fashioned in the very image of God. . .”). Human beings are not fashioned in the very image of God. “That original sin (in human nature) is not only this entire absence of all good in spiritual, divine things, but that, instead of the lost image of God in man, it is at the same time also a deep, wicked, horrible, fathomless, inscrutable, and unspeakable corruption of the entire nature and all its powers, especially of the highest, principal powers of the soul in the understanding, heart, and will, so that now, since the Fall, man inherits an inborn wicked disposition and inward impurity of heart, evil lust and propensity. . .” SD, Original Sin. Why would a confessional Lutheran sign an obviously heterodox document?

McCain: I think you raise a valid concern, but again, I don’t think this aspect of the document should override its main point and purpose. Further, I’m not sure that in asserting your point, there is not also a danger into falling into the trap of Flacius re. original sin and the essence of humanity. See: http://bookofconcord.org/sd-originalsin.php

By: Rev. Charles Lehmann

Rev. Charles Lehmann — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:13:59 +0000

I would probably sign it if it did not affirm Martin Luther King, Jr.’s perspective as “explicitly Christian.” It’s well documented that Dr. King was not a Christian, having denied the divinity of Christ, the hypostatic union, etc.

Language affirming his “Christian” perspective is as sloppy as when evangelicals try to turn American revolutionary history into Christian hagiography.

By: Rev. Patrick Lohse

Rev. Patrick Lohse — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:27:52 +0000

Pastor McCain,

I think you are a bit harsh in your critique on Confessional Lutherans and their reluctance to “‘sign’ any kind of statement protesting where the government is headed, and is now.” Lowell Green in his book, “Lutherans against Hitler” does a masterful job presenting the case that Confessional Lutherans did not simply twiddle their thumbs while Hitler rose to power. The Bethel Confession was one particular document formulated to confess God’s truth in the face of evil. Could Lutherans in Germany have done more to prevent Nazism? Yes! Were there Lutherans that made a clear confession? Yes! Praise be to God for men like Hermann Sasse and Dietrich Bonhoeffer who suffered much for justice and truth.

By the way, you are right in calling Confessional Lutherans to sign the Manhattan Declaration. From what I have read and understand it is not a syncretistic document.

By: Stephen Foxx

Stephen Foxx — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:29:20 +0000

I just want to submit that I signed, have had my wife read it and she signed it, and have sent it to several fellow parishioners in my church as well as those folks I know to be Christians in my unit and they are in signature aggreement too. The three pillars of society found in this declaration are truly worth defending at all costs for all Christians.

By: Mike Burdick

Mike Burdick — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:29:00 +0000

Thanks for the suggestion. I read. I signed.

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:26:46 +0000

If it did not have the language of Syncretism “We are Orthodox, Catholic, and evangelical Christians” I would sign, I can stand with atheist and Roman Catholic alike for what is right ( good old left hand kingdom stuff) but to muddle things up and make a generic christian statement is unhelpful. Is it historically common for confessional Lutherans to sign on to such statements?

McCain response: This is not the “language of syncretism.” Lutherans have never denied that the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are Christian churches. Your comment unfortunately suffers from category confusion. “Confessional” Lutherans have a disgraceful history of refusing to “sign” any kind of statement protesting where the government is headed, and is now. It reached its low/high point during WW II in Germany. We have a tendency to fiddle while Rome burns, and nuance ourselves to death on these issues.