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	<title>Comments on: Advice For Aspiring Preachers</title>
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	<description>Devoted to authentic Lutheranism</description>
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		<title>By: Worthwhile preaching thoughts &#171; Mississauga Musings</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9773</link>
		<dc:creator>Worthwhile preaching thoughts &#171; Mississauga Musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/" rel="nofollow">http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Dr. Chris N. Hinkle</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9760</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Dr. Chris N. Hinkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9760</guid>
		<description>Your readers will find a lot of good resources at the blog &lt;a href=&quot;http://sixminutes.dlugan.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Six Minutes&lt;/a&gt;.  One of the books recommended there is James C. Humes &lt;em&gt;Speak Like Churchhill. Stand Like Lincoln&lt;/em&gt;. I worked through it this summer and found it very helpful. One simple, but very effective, tip from that book was simply to stand and wait for people&#039;s attention before speaking. 

You can find more good stuff at the Decker Communications &lt;a href=&quot;http://decker.com/blog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog and web site.&lt;/a&gt; Decker would encourage you to get off the manuscript, not because it makes it easier to listen to your speech, but because it is easier for people to believe that &lt;em&gt;you believe&lt;/em&gt; what you are saying, and therefore they listen more closely. (His book is entitled &lt;em&gt;You Have to Be Believed to Be Heard.&lt;/em&gt;) Other factors like eye contact and body language also play a role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your readers will find a lot of good resources at the blog <a href="http://sixminutes.dlugan.com/" rel="nofollow">Six Minutes</a>.  One of the books recommended there is James C. Humes <em>Speak Like Churchhill. Stand Like Lincoln</em>. I worked through it this summer and found it very helpful. One simple, but very effective, tip from that book was simply to stand and wait for people&#8217;s attention before speaking. </p>
<p>You can find more good stuff at the Decker Communications <a href="http://decker.com/blog" rel="nofollow">blog and web site.</a> Decker would encourage you to get off the manuscript, not because it makes it easier to listen to your speech, but because it is easier for people to believe that <em>you believe</em> what you are saying, and therefore they listen more closely. (His book is entitled <em>You Have to Be Believed to Be Heard.</em>) Other factors like eye contact and body language also play a role.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Baker</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9759</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9759</guid>
		<description>@Vernon

The chaplain corps is not really the work of a parish pastor.  Based on my experience, those who do not conform to the banal sense of generic, utilitarian theism meet with harsh resistence and resentment.  For the faithful Christian (both pastoral and lay), it has more of the feel of a missionary or evangelist than parish life... which becomes more extreme during demployment.

The chaplain corps is where many people consider Mormons a christian sect and you can have a Christian Scientist as your Chaplain supervisor who is the co-head pastor of the post&#039;s protestant service.  Many times, a faithful Lutheran finds he has more in common with the Roman Catholic chaplain than anyone else (which is not ideal to say the least).

There is good reason why people do not want to enter the chaplaincy.  I have witnessed first had what a trial by fire it is.  Most of the mainline denomenations, Lutherans, and Roman Catholics are woefully under-represented... for a good reason!  And yet, the reasons why it is so tough are exatly the reasons why faithful, stalwart chaplains are so badly needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vernon</p>
<p>The chaplain corps is not really the work of a parish pastor.  Based on my experience, those who do not conform to the banal sense of generic, utilitarian theism meet with harsh resistence and resentment.  For the faithful Christian (both pastoral and lay), it has more of the feel of a missionary or evangelist than parish life&#8230; which becomes more extreme during demployment.</p>
<p>The chaplain corps is where many people consider Mormons a christian sect and you can have a Christian Scientist as your Chaplain supervisor who is the co-head pastor of the post&#8217;s protestant service.  Many times, a faithful Lutheran finds he has more in common with the Roman Catholic chaplain than anyone else (which is not ideal to say the least).</p>
<p>There is good reason why people do not want to enter the chaplaincy.  I have witnessed first had what a trial by fire it is.  Most of the mainline denomenations, Lutherans, and Roman Catholics are woefully under-represented&#8230; for a good reason!  And yet, the reasons why it is so tough are exatly the reasons why faithful, stalwart chaplains are so badly needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9750</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9750</guid>
		<description>I was guest preaching a funeral, not in my called parish, and as I prepared for the service I noticed in the pulpit was pasted a note writ large quoting John 12:21, &quot;Sir, we wish to see Jesus.&quot; That little Word of Scripture now reminds me of my task every time I prepare a sermon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was guest preaching a funeral, not in my called parish, and as I prepared for the service I noticed in the pulpit was pasted a note writ large quoting John 12:21, &#8220;Sir, we wish to see Jesus.&#8221; That little Word of Scripture now reminds me of my task every time I prepare a sermon.</p>
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		<title>By: Tapani Simojoki</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9749</link>
		<dc:creator>Tapani Simojoki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9749</guid>
		<description>Oops... posted too quickly. I didn&#039;t mean to say that T. David Gordon expressed my views. Rather, I agree wholeheartedly with T. David Gordon&#039;s view!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230; posted too quickly. I didn&#8217;t mean to say that T. David Gordon expressed my views. Rather, I agree wholeheartedly with T. David Gordon&#8217;s view!</p>
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		<title>By: Tapani Simojoki</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9746</link>
		<dc:creator>Tapani Simojoki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9746</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-9731&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Chris &lt;/a&gt; 
I&#039;m sorry, but this is simply not the case! My own views have been expressed extremely well by T. David Gordon, in a section called &quot;The Almost Universal Desire for Briefer Sermons&quot;:

&lt;i&gt;When something is well done, we do not complain about its length. ... When we experience a thing that is well done, we get caught up in it, become lost in the moment, and lose any sense of the passage of time. When a public speaker has something important to say, and says it in a well-organized manner that enables the audience to perceive its significance, the reaction is similar. People do not look at their watches, clear their throats, stretch, and do a number of other nervous exercises indicative of their boredom. But if that public discourse is litless, rambling, disorganized, without clear purpose, and uninspiring, ten minutes seems like an eternity ... People may very well have a reduced attention span, but even so, they have no difficulty giving attention to a discourse they deem important and well organized ... &lt;b&gt;Sermon length is not measured in minutes; it is measured in minutes-beyond-interest, in the amount of time the minister continues to preach after he has lost the interest of his hearers (assuming he ever kindled it in the first place).&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

T. David Gordon, &lt;i&gt;Why Jonny Can&#039;t Preach&lt;/i&gt; (Phillipsburg, NJ: P&amp;R Publishing, 2009), 28-31

I group up in a place where the majority of the congregation were &#039;working class&#039; and smallholders -- people from modest educational backgrounds. But they had been brought up for generations on meaty preaching and devout, orthodox piety. It would be rare to hear a sermon under 30 minutes, occasionally they would exceed an hour. But the preaching was of a high quality, well prepared, textual law &amp; gospel preaching that spoke to each man &amp; woman in the pew. No one ever complained, not even this (then) teenager. Had the pastor stopped after 10 minutes for fear of losing the people&#039;s attention, then they would have complained -- they had waited for a whole week to hear a sermon, some had travelled some distance for it, so they didn&#039;t want Sermon-Lite. I still don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-9731" rel="nofollow">@Chris </a><br />
I&#8217;m sorry, but this is simply not the case! My own views have been expressed extremely well by T. David Gordon, in a section called &#8220;The Almost Universal Desire for Briefer Sermons&#8221;:</p>
<p><i>When something is well done, we do not complain about its length. &#8230; When we experience a thing that is well done, we get caught up in it, become lost in the moment, and lose any sense of the passage of time. When a public speaker has something important to say, and says it in a well-organized manner that enables the audience to perceive its significance, the reaction is similar. People do not look at their watches, clear their throats, stretch, and do a number of other nervous exercises indicative of their boredom. But if that public discourse is litless, rambling, disorganized, without clear purpose, and uninspiring, ten minutes seems like an eternity &#8230; People may very well have a reduced attention span, but even so, they have no difficulty giving attention to a discourse they deem important and well organized &#8230; <b>Sermon length is not measured in minutes; it is measured in minutes-beyond-interest, in the amount of time the minister continues to preach after he has lost the interest of his hearers (assuming he ever kindled it in the first place).</b></i></p>
<p>T. David Gordon, <i>Why Jonny Can&#8217;t Preach</i> (Phillipsburg, NJ: P&#038;R Publishing, 2009), 28-31</p>
<p>I group up in a place where the majority of the congregation were &#8216;working class&#8217; and smallholders &#8212; people from modest educational backgrounds. But they had been brought up for generations on meaty preaching and devout, orthodox piety. It would be rare to hear a sermon under 30 minutes, occasionally they would exceed an hour. But the preaching was of a high quality, well prepared, textual law &#038; gospel preaching that spoke to each man &#038; woman in the pew. No one ever complained, not even this (then) teenager. Had the pastor stopped after 10 minutes for fear of losing the people&#8217;s attention, then they would have complained &#8212; they had waited for a whole week to hear a sermon, some had travelled some distance for it, so they didn&#8217;t want Sermon-Lite. I still don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Beckwith</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9741</link>
		<dc:creator>Beckwith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9741</guid>
		<description>Great post, Paul. I would add that all aspiring preachers should use the LSB one-year lectionary. Spend you hours of preparation with Luther, Gerhard, Loy, and Walther. You will be a Lutheran preacher before you know it.

If you can, don&#039;t use a manuscript. The sermon will be far more engaging and memorable for the congregation. Your outline should be the appointed text for the day. Preach the Word--God has made great promises about its effectiveness!

I&#039;d be curious about average sermon lengths. The 6-8 suggestion above wouldn&#039;t work for me. I use about that much time offering a theological/historical introduction to the text. My sermons average 23-25 minutes. Luther advises not to exceed 30 minutes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Paul. I would add that all aspiring preachers should use the LSB one-year lectionary. Spend you hours of preparation with Luther, Gerhard, Loy, and Walther. You will be a Lutheran preacher before you know it.</p>
<p>If you can, don&#8217;t use a manuscript. The sermon will be far more engaging and memorable for the congregation. Your outline should be the appointed text for the day. Preach the Word&#8211;God has made great promises about its effectiveness!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be curious about average sermon lengths. The 6-8 suggestion above wouldn&#8217;t work for me. I use about that much time offering a theological/historical introduction to the text. My sermons average 23-25 minutes. Luther advises not to exceed 30 minutes.</p>
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		<title>By: jmark</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9740</link>
		<dc:creator>jmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9740</guid>
		<description>&quot;Don’t underestimate how much your people come to hear a Word from God, not a word from you, or about your family, or about children, or your dog, or the latest interesting movie you’ve seen, or book you’ve read, or what your professor in seminary said when you were there.&quot;

If I could have one wish about the church granted, it would be this: 
Pastors will have so much faith in the Word that they will preach it unadorned, plain, and simple, believing that it will do its work if they simply preach it because it is God&#039;s word and not the word of man.
I was converted to Lutheranism because I read Luther&#039;s explanation of the the Word of God. If I had attended some of the local Lutheran churches--where pastors are as likely to preach Rick Warren and the latest football game as the Word of God--I would never have become a Lutheran.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Don’t underestimate how much your people come to hear a Word from God, not a word from you, or about your family, or about children, or your dog, or the latest interesting movie you’ve seen, or book you’ve read, or what your professor in seminary said when you were there.&#8221;</p>
<p>If I could have one wish about the church granted, it would be this:<br />
Pastors will have so much faith in the Word that they will preach it unadorned, plain, and simple, believing that it will do its work if they simply preach it because it is God&#8217;s word and not the word of man.<br />
I was converted to Lutheranism because I read Luther&#8217;s explanation of the the Word of God. If I had attended some of the local Lutheran churches&#8211;where pastors are as likely to preach Rick Warren and the latest football game as the Word of God&#8211;I would never have become a Lutheran.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9738</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9738</guid>
		<description>Excellent advice...I get so tired of every sermon having a modern movie or sports story in it.  Sometimes these illustrations unnecessarily extend sermons and distract from the main point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent advice&#8230;I get so tired of every sermon having a modern movie or sports story in it.  Sometimes these illustrations unnecessarily extend sermons and distract from the main point.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://cyberbrethren.com/2009/12/15/advice-for-aspiring-preachers/comment-page-1/#comment-9737</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyberbrethren.com/?p=4339#comment-9737</guid>
		<description>I have thought about being a Pastor.  However, I too feared public speaking, struggling with knowing if I am really called or not, not having enough witty stories about my life, not knowing the Bible well enough, and changing my entire life and my wifes.  I think most people who consider being a Pastor probably have these things run through their mind. I definitely appreciate Pastors and what they do.  I have been encouraged by another Pastor I know, who had a fear of public speaking to the point where he would totally lock up, but with Gods help he is a Pastor today.  Reading your points make me feel a bit more encouraged. For now, I am happy with helping my Pastor and serving in the church in a different role.  I hope that one day I can take a more active role in teaching, perhaps in Bible study groups or Sunday school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have thought about being a Pastor.  However, I too feared public speaking, struggling with knowing if I am really called or not, not having enough witty stories about my life, not knowing the Bible well enough, and changing my entire life and my wifes.  I think most people who consider being a Pastor probably have these things run through their mind. I definitely appreciate Pastors and what they do.  I have been encouraged by another Pastor I know, who had a fear of public speaking to the point where he would totally lock up, but with Gods help he is a Pastor today.  Reading your points make me feel a bit more encouraged. For now, I am happy with helping my Pastor and serving in the church in a different role.  I hope that one day I can take a more active role in teaching, perhaps in Bible study groups or Sunday school.</p>
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